Powers of Arrest

[enforce-logic forum administrator]

Should PCSO's have any power of arrest?  Maybe just while they are on duty, or just when they are in their own area.  It will happen in the end, in the States I think the Sherrifs have limited powers to their county etc only.  Even police have limited powers across state lines I believe.  The feds seem to have more powers, but for more serious offences...
So..........what should happen with our PCSO's, and, what's more to the point, what do you think will happen?

[FN21]

Hmm, this is a contentious one.

As I see it, PCSO's were introduced to be a visible presence in the community, to be our eyes and ears whilst patrolling and to provide the public with reassurance. 

The problem the government has is that the media is becoming increasingly hostile towards the notion of PCSO's as they find it unacceptable that they are paying for a person in uniform that 'can't do this and can't do that'.

And the Governments response?  To allow Chief Constable's the opportunity to give their PCSO's more powers.  Well this seems to be at odds with their intended purpose doesn't it?!  If you give them a power of arrest then you take them off the streets for hours at a time just like Police officers.

So any move to give PCSO's more powers is illogical to me.  But then why should the tax payer give a PCSO a salary greater than that of a new Constable to do a job requiring so much less training, skills, power and responsibility.  More to the point why should they pay so much for someone that won't intervene when they see you getting beaten up in the park, because they are told not to?!

The way I see it, is that PCSO's are a valuable aid to Policing within their original role, but are not good value for money, and should be paid less.  If they are given more powers than they cannot fulfill that role and where does it stop?  The more powers you give them, the more they cost and the less value they are for money, because they can never be Police officers.

[Litew8]

PCSO's have some powers of arrest already under Section 24a of PACE and of course under common law to prevent a Breach of the Peace... they also have a common law power of entry to premises to save life and limb as well as a common law power to use force.  I think it's down to force policy as to whether they may exercise these... I heard from a PCSO that PCSO's at SURREY POLICE aren't allowed to use S24a at all but can ask someone to remain with them (for up to 30 minutes) whilst a PC is on-route.

To give them full powers of arrest will mean that they will also require a large investment of time and resources to deal with a  person who may object to being dealt with in that way... i.e. handcuffs, batons, CS, and OST Techniques... that'll cost a packet to "retro-fit" but could lead to policing on the cheap in the future as PCSO's a generally paid less than officers.

I agree that PCSO's are a valuable resource in their original intended role providing a visible presence and intelligence that PCs are no longer able to provide in many cases given the move to response-teams from beat-bobbies.

[FN21]

That's it, PCSO's were introduced to satisfy the public's appetite for Dixon of Dock Green style community Policing.  Problem is that the Dixon of Dock Green was a bobby.  By the nature of the modern job, that is a bygone era.

All PCSO's have powers of citizens arrest, as every citizen does, but they are told not to use them as it conflicts with their role and training.  Citizen powers of arrest are adequate for most situations you would encounter on the street, Police powers of arrest are only really necessary for arrests arising from investigation or the accounts of others, not something that happens in front of you.

[heedlessmunkey]

I think there powers of detention are more than adequate. There job isnt to go out and arrest people its to walk around and be the face of policing while everyone else does the proper work.

If they were to get powers of arrest id like to think the entrance criteria would be a little more taxing.
2 legs 2 arms, broken english and half an idea.... when can you start?

[c3po]

If we get full powers of arrest, same as police afficers, are we then not police officers ??
The only difference would be less training and less money.  We seem to be used to patrol, but can't do too much when we see a problem except report on the radio.  These days with mobile phones control seem to know about things quickly anyway.  The other problem is that most people, especially when theyre drunk, see us as a police officer anyway, but we are told not to get involved in violent disorders.  The idiots that get drunk and fight just think the police will stand by and watch, which is what we are syupposed to do, to gather evidence etc.  It's not an easy situation, but it is a job. You can see why police officers are sceptical, it wasn't really thought through at all by government.  Could Blunkett when he was home secratary not see clearly when he thought of it.  Clearly not, he is blind in more ways than one !

[enforce-logic forum administrator]

I see PCSO's doing scene watches, can they do bed watches when someone is in custody at hospital etc??

[FN21]

I've known them to be used for constant obs in custody, but not as a hospital guard.  I suppose that in custody there are always attested officers to hand if use of force is required and the main point behind con obs is to keep an eye on self harmers / suicide risks.  A hospital guard on the other hand is there to stop the prisoner escaping and in a place where other officers are not present a PCSO is not adequate.

[Litew8]

I recently spent an entire shift on hospital guard watching Mr P. Risoner SLEEPING through all of it... nearly nodded off myself... was very frustrating hearing colleagues call up for juicy jobs or ask for more units and there's no chance of you going... grrrrrr 

[FN21]

Nothing worse!

[johnboy]

That's the trouble, if they do a prisoner watch, what powwers do they have if the patient trys to get up and go, they call a police officer, well the hospital could do that, but we have a police officer because  they are in custody, more than that though, if something happensds to them while in police custody it is a nightmare, so what is the point of PCSO's at all.